Class starts at 9:30 am in the Multipurpose Room with singing and prayer followed by a mission story and then the lesson study. Anyone is invited to attend this class and we sincerly hope to see you bright and early Sabbath morning as we discuss and share together about our Saviors love for us!
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Daily Adult Sabbath School Lesson Study Guide
If Paul is talking about the whole law system at Sinai, what about Romans 7:7, in which he specifically mentions one of the Ten Commandments? Doesn’t that refute the position taken yesterday that Paul was not talking about the abolition of the Ten Commandments?
The answer is “No.” We must keep in mind, again, that the word law for Paul is the whole system introduced at Sinai, which included the moral law but wasn’t limited to it. Hence, Paul could quote from it, as well as from any other section of the whole Jewish economy, in order to make his points. However, when the system passed away at the death of Christ, that didn’t include the moral law, which had existed even before Sinai and exists after Calvary, as well.
Read Romans 7:8-11. What is Paul saying here about the relationship between the law and sin?
God revealed Himself to the Jews, telling them in detail what was right and wrong in moral, civil, ceremonial, and health matters. He also explained the penalties for violation of the various laws. Violation of the revealed will of God is here defined as sin.
Thus, Paul explains, he would not have known if it was a sin to covet without having been informed of that fact by the “law.” Sin is the violation of the revealed will of God and where the revealed will is unknown, there is no awareness of sin. When that revealed will is made known to a person, he or she comes to recognize that he or she is a sinner and is under condemnation and death. In this sense, the person dies.
In Paul’s line of argument here and throughout this section, he is trying to build a bridge to lead the Jews – who revere the “law” – to see Christ as its fulfillment. He is showing that the law was necessary but that its function was limited. The law was meant to show the need of salvation; it never was meant to be the means of obtaining that salvation.
“The apostle Paul, in relating his experience, presents an important truth concerning the work to be wrought in conversion. He says, ‘I was alive without the law once’ – he felt no condemnation; ‘but when the commandment came,’ when the law of God was urged upon his conscience, ‘sin revived, and I died.’ Then he saw himself a sinner, condemned by the divine law. Mark, it was Paul, and not the law, that died.” – Ellen G. White Comments, The SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 6, p. 1076.
|In what sense have you “died” before the law? How, in that context, can you understand what Jesus has done for you by giving you a new life in Him?|
Read Romans 7:1-6. What illustration does Paul use here in order to show his readers their relationship to the law, and what point is he making with that illustration?
Paul’s illustration in Romans 7:1-6 is somewhat involved, but a careful analysis of the passage will help us to follow his reasoning.
In the overall context of the letter, Paul was dealing with the system of worship established at Sinai; that is often what he means by the word law. The Jews had difficulty grasping the fact that this system, given to them of God, should end with the coming of the Messiah. This is what Paul was dealing with – Jewish believers still not ready to abandon what had been such an important part of their lives.
In essence, Paul’s illustration is as follows: a woman is married to a man. The law binds her to him as long as he lives. During his lifetime she cannot consort with other men. But when he dies, she is free from the law that bound her to him (Rom. 7:3).
How does Paul apply the illustration of the law of marriage to the system of Judaism? Rom. 7:4-5.
As the death of her husband delivers the woman from the law of her husband, so the death of the old life in the flesh, through Jesus Christ, delivers the Jews from the law they had been expected to keep until the Messiah fulfilled its types.
Now the Jews were free to “remarry.” They were invited to marry the risen Messiah and thus bring forth fruit to God. This illustration was one more device Paul used to convince the Jews that they were now free to abandon the ancient system.
Again, given all else that Paul and the Bible say about obedience to the Ten Commandments, it doesn’t make sense to assert here that Paul was telling these Jewish believers that the Ten Commandments were no longer binding. Those who use these texts to try to make that point – that the moral law was done away with – really don’t want to make that point, anyway; what they really want to say is that only the seventh-day Sabbath is gone, not the rest of the law. To interpret Romans 7:4-5 as teaching that the fourth commandment has been abolished or superseded or replaced with Sunday is to give them a meaning that the words were never intended to have.
13 comment(s) for this post:
- Sam [Surname?]:
18 Nov 2017 When I was reading today's lesson "dead to the law", I was compelled to read ancient Jewish laws or Jewish history. There I read about the Jewish way of life also referred to as the halahkah. These were laws that governed religious and non religious way of life or living. In total there were 611-613 laws. Am yet to read and find out what these laws stipulated but my conclusion is that these were the laws that the lesson is talking about. When Jesus died on the cross these laws died too, they were no longer bound to these laws. They were now to live a Christ like life hence these laws no longer suffice. Similarly when we choose Jesus as our lord and saviour, through his death we are no longer bound to sin anymore. We are freed from the sinful nature and we are compelled to live a Christ like life.
- Daniel Shannon:
19 Nov 2017 Christ has made it clear that not one jot or tittle of the Law can be changed until ALL in the Law AND in the prophets has been fulfilled. Not everything written in the OT has been fulfilled. In the last book of the OT God through His prophet tells us to Remember the laws of Moses WITH the judgments, statutes etc. So if such be the case what is God telling us through Paul's writings in Romans 7? Now IF we are to really understand we cannot disconnect Romans 7 from Romans 6 then the answer is found IN Waggoners book "Waggoner on Romans." Married to the Wrong man! Seeking a Divorce. There comes a time in our experience when we wish to be free from sin. It is when we see something of the beauty of holiness. With some people the desire is only occasional; with others it is more constant. Whether they recognize the fact or not, it is Christ appealing to them to forsake sin, and to be joined to him, to live with him. And so they endeavor to effect a separation. But sin will not consent. In spite of all that we can do, it still clings to us. We are "one flesh," and it is a union for life since it is a union of our life to sin. There is no divorce in that marriage. Freedom in Death. There is no hope of effecting a separation from sin by any ordinary means. No matter how much we may desire to be united to Christ, it can not be done while we are joined to sin; for the law will not sanction such a union, and Christ will not enter into any union that is not lawful. If we could only get sin to die, we should be free, but it will not die. There is only one way for us to be freed from the hateful union, and that is for us to die. If we wish freedom so much that we are willing [for self] to be crucified, then it may be done. In death the separation is effected; for it is by the body of Christ that "we" become dead. We are crucified with him. The body of sin is also crucified. But while the body of sin is destroyed, we have a resurrection in Christ. The same thing that frees us from the first husband, unites us to the second. p. 7.119 In essence the problem is as long as the "old man of sin" is still alive we are still married to "him." Christ will NOT commit adultery therefore until we "take up our cross daily," self being crucified everyday we CANNOT be married to Christ! The "law" Paul is referring to is the law he sees in him that is contrary to the Law of God. Read verses 21-24!
- Daniel Shannon:
19 Nov 2017 Here this should help us see more fully what Paul is referring to: “One Flesh.” The law of marriage is that the two parties to it “shall be one flesh.” How is it in this case? The first husband is the flesh, the body of sin. Well, we were truly one flesh with that. We were by nature perfectly united to sin. It was our life. It controlled us. Whatever sin devised, that we did. We might have done it unwillingly at times, but we did it nevertheless. Sin reigned in our mortal bodies, so that we obeyed it in the lusts thereof. Whatever sin wished, was law to us. We were one flesh.
- Ana Cassia:
19 Nov 2017 God's grace is so wonderful.. Redemption plan is a kind of miracle...so we can't understand it completely!!
- William Earnhardt:
19 Nov 2017 Thank you Daniel for sharing this from the Creation SDA Website. http://www.faithofjesus.to/rom_7-3.html
- Roger Metzger:
19 Nov 2017 For more than 1200 years, the Roman Church taught (and, so far as I know, still does teach) that the Church (meaning the Roman hierarchy) REPLACED the religion of the Hebrews. Protestants stepped away from that doctrine in two ways: Protestants rejected the sacrifice of the mass (please Google “the sacrifice of the mass” if you aren’t acquainted with the theology of the mass). And protestants used a method of Bible interpretation (the historicist method) based on the premise that the church (meaning believers in Jesus) IS modern Israel (not merely its replacement). As with many other things, however, 16th century protestants clung to many of the traditions of the Roman Church, including the idea that Christianity was an entirely new religion in the first century AD. 19th century adventists attempted to make a distinction between the moral law and the ceremonial law and that TRADITION is alive and well in the 21st century. I prefer to explain Christianity in terms of Jesus attempting to sweep away centuries of rabbinic traditions in favor of the instructions contained in scripture. This way of explaining what Christianity is allows for Paul’s admonishing Christians to “keep the feast” (Passover). It also solves a number of other “problems”. I say, Let’s agree that any denomination can have behavior criteria for voting membership or holding specific offices in that organization while, at the same time, making it very clear that salvation is by grace alone--i.e. there are no behavior criteria for salvation. Christian living is the RESULT of being saved--not the basis of salvation.
- Anele Dube:
19 Nov 2017 Dying to the law does not mean the person has been freed from the specific commandments of God. It means we are free from the guilt that comes as a penalty for disobedience, because Christ our substitute bore that penalty. It also frees us from the law's inability to make us right with God.
- Anele Dube:
19 Nov 2017 Roger you stated "19th century adventists attempted to make a distinction between the moral law and the ceremonial law and that TRADITION is alive and well in the 21st century." I am not sure whether it was an attempt or that's what the bible teaches. The bible records that God spoke the Moral law to to the entire assembly of the children of Israel at mount Sinai. This means they heard Him speaking. He wrote that law with his own hand in two tables of stone and handed it to Moses. He commanded him to put it inside of the Ark of the Covenant. The other law was given to Moses who wrote it himself and gave it to the priest and commanded them to keep it on the side of the Ark of the Covenant. This description means the two aren't the same.
- Daniel Shannon:
19 Nov 2017 And yet we find Christ saying: "IF you love Me keep My Commandments!" Christ came to magnify the Law and make it honorable. Paul says " Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.!" Now my question to you Sam are you suggesting we no longer HAVE a "sinful nature?" My everyday experience tells me I am still warring against mine!
- Guy [Full Name Please]:
19 Nov 2017 I believe the correlation to the death of a husband was used for a reason here. Christ is our husbandman. We are the bride. If Christ were to die then we would be free to live a life of sin for no other hope would exist. Christ died. We were free from the law of faith and without hope. Praise God that this story did not end here for 3 days later Christ rose again. With our groom alive again we have the ability to enter back into the law of faith. That law leads us to hope that we would otherwise not have. The hope of ever-lasting life in His Kingdom to come. Praise God our groom is alive.
- Annette E Macintosh:
19 Nov 2017 Hi Sam, I think the 10 Commandments are expressed in 14 of these laws.
- Roger Metzger:
19 Nov 2017 Anele Dube, My parents were voting members of the SdA organization before I was born (1944). I requested voting membership in 1959. My wife requested voting membership in 1979. My parents are deceased but my wife’s name and mine are still “on the books”. Many adventists subscribe to specific doctrines because those doctrines were taught by adventists in the nineteenth century--analogous to methodists who subscribe to specific doctrines because those doctrines were taught by methodists in the eighteenth century. My wife and I aren’t traditionalists. Our religion is personal--not institutional. Even when I was in my teens, I didn’t adopt any doctrine until it made sense to me. I agree that there is a “difference” between the ceremonial and the moral law but it seems to me that explaining that difference in this context is likely to be understood (by almost anyone who isn’t an adventist) to mean that people were saved long ago by “keeping” both the moral law and the ceremonial law and that people are saved now by keeping the moral law--keeping the ceremonial law is no longer essential to salvation. My objection is because I believe we are saved by grace alone through faith alone (God’s grace is the source and means of salvation--faith is the vehicle or conduit of salvation and even faith is God’s gift to us). I’ve attended several SdA “evangelistic” series over the last 60+ years and most of the “evangelists” placed so much emphasis on behavior criteria for denominational membership that it was no surprise to me that people thought he was teaching that we are saved (justified, sanctified or glorified) by our behavior. (There were two exceptions: H.M.S. Richards Sr. whom I heard in person several times and the conference officer who baptized my wife--but who who didn’t have the title of “evangelist”.) On the first Passover, the firstborn who were “passed over” were saved, not by the lambs that were killed or by killing the lambs (what the people did) or by the blood of the lambs or by sprinkling the blood on the doorposts or by eating the lambs--they were saved by the lamb of God who was represented by the Passover lambs. Only my understanding of course.
- Aletha W Blackmon:
19 Nov 2017 Help me to understand. How does Paul in Romans 7:4,5. use the picture of the Law about marriage to help Jewish believers understand they could let go of the old worship plan?
Read for This Week’s Study: Romans 7.
Memory Text: “Now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter” (Romans 7:6).
Few chapters in the Bible have created more controversy than has Romans 7. Concerning the issues involved, The SDA Bible Commentary says: “The meaning of [Romans 7:14-25] has been one of the most discussed problems in the whole epistle. The main questions have been as to whether the description of such intense moral struggle could be autobiographical, and, if so, whether the passage refers to Paul’s experience before or after his conversion. That Paul is speaking of his own personal struggle with sin seems apparent from the simplest meaning of his words (cf. [Romans 7:7-11]; . . .). [Ellen G. White, Steps to Christ, p. 19; Ellen G. White, Testimonies for the Church, vol. 3, p. 475.] It is surely also true that he is describing a conflict that is more or less experienced by every soul confronted by and awakened to the spiritual claims of God’s holy law.” – The SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 6, p. 553.
Bible students differ on whether Romans 7 was Paul’s experience before or after his conversion. Whatever position one takes, what’s important is that Jesus’ righteousness covers us and that in His righteousness we stand perfect before God, who promises to sanctify us, to give us victory over sin, and to conform us to “the image of his Son” (Rom. 8:29). These are the crucial points for us to know and experience as we seek to spread “the everlasting gospel” to “every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people” (Rev. 14:6).
Study this week’s lesson to prepare for Sabbath, November 25.
11 comment(s) for this post:
- lorraine [surname?]:
17 Nov 2017 I love the studies on God and what His word says.
18 Nov 2017 The man of Romans 7 is not a hypocrite, he loves Gods law. He is earnest, but he is not a genuinely converted man. Romans 7 describes a classic legalist, he really desires victory, he wants something better, he strives with all his human effort for victory, but he meets with constant failure. He believes that's the way it will be until Jesus comes. The man of Romans did ask the right question though. “O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?” Paul came back immediately, I thank God-- through Jesus Christ our Lord. You remember last quarter, Paul answers the man of Romans 7 question so clear in: Galatians 2:20.
- Paul Blanke:
18 Nov 2017 Paul often uses metaphor as example or illustration in order to present the thoughts on his mind, Such as Romans 7:4,"dead to the law". This is how all of his letters were constructed. The question that has occurred to me, especially in the study of Galatians, the instructions given to the new converts if they were aware of Romans 7. A possible time period conflict ? Certainly before his conversion. What is unmistakable is Romans 7:18,19.
- Guy [Full Name Please]:
18 Nov 2017 This would be so much easier to understand if we stopped trying to make this passage say what it does not. Chapter 7 has nothing to do with the 10 commandments -- not directly anyway. Let's take the memory verse as our platform for understanding... “Now we are delivered from the law,... Are we delivered from the 10 commandments? Certainly not. So what law would we be delivered from? The answer to that question follows in exactly what Paul is saying. ...that being dead wherein we were held; What law were we held as dead men in? Certainly not the commandments for they are all about life, not death. Romans 8:2 ... Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Well now, this makes sense. If I sin I will die. If I am held in that law then I'm dead. "that we should serve in newness of spirit," This contrast was actually shown in the first part of Romans 8:2 "2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"... So what is this law of the Spirit of life? Romans 3:27 ..."Nay: but by the law of faith." By living under the law of faith we automatically keep the commandments which happen to be called commandments, not laws. We also keep the Mosaic covenant including the health law. It's in our nature. ..."and not in the oldness of the letter” By following the law of faith we are loosed from the law of death. It really is that simple. Those who choose to hang onto the law of death are bound to the letter of sin's consequence.
- Anele Dube:
19 Nov 2017 How I wish the SDA would tackle the law in the context of what it is said in the respective chapter. Chapters 6,7&8 are about living a sanctified life. Paul is make reference to the law in that it is not the dynamic that sanctifies. This is the office of the Holy Spirit. I don't understand why we shift from that perspective. We miss a lot by trying to make the word "law" a Sabbath issue.
- Pete Villarreal:
19 Nov 2017 So is John also speaking to NEW CONVERTS about his as well as their experience BEFORE their conversion in 1 John 3:2?
- Pete Villarreal:
19 Nov 2017 I do not think that either the Apostle Paul or John were speaking of their experience before their conversion in 1 John 3:2 or Romans 7:18,19. They were both speaking of their experience IN THE FLESH after their conversion to JESUS.
- William Earnhardt:
19 Nov 2017 Pete, we sure struggle even as Christians don't we? I wish I was more like Jesus. I know by God's grace I can be. Yet I see people who have been in the church only a fraction of the time I have been, and yet they are already so much more like Jesus than I am! But I follow Paul's counsel in Philippians 3 and keep pressing onward, keeping my eyes on Jesus. I know He loves and accepts me even with all my faults. I am thankful that Paul, whether describing his struggle before or after conversion or both, goes on to tell us how to have victory by living in the Spirit instead of "IN THE FLESH." "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." Romans 8:1-2 NKJV "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." Romans 8:9 NKJV
- Jim Williams:
19 Nov 2017 John. This is Paul you are talking about. If he is not a truly converted, then no one is. The Greek simple does not support your view. This is written in the present continuous tense. This is a man that the closer he gets to God more fully recognizes his need of a Savior.
- William Earnhardt:
19 Nov 2017 Jim, many theologians agree, Paul was writing in present tense about a past experience. Many writers do this. Still, there is a struggle even after conversion, but we are promised victory in the struggle.
19 Nov 2017 What happens if I DON'T overcome my addiction before I die. Will I still go to heaven?
Further Thought: Read Ellen G. White, “Victory Appropriated,” pages 105, 106, in Messages to Young People; “The True Motive in Service,” pages 93-95, in Thoughts From the Mount of Blessing; “Appeal to the Young,” p. 365, in Testimonies for the Church, vol. 3; pages 1074, 1075, in The SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 6.
“He [Jesus] did not consent to sin. Not even by a thought did He yield to temptation. So it may be with us. Christ’s humanity was united with divinity; He was fitted for the conflict by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And He came to make us partakers of the divine nature. So long as we are united to Him by faith, sin has no more dominion over us. God reaches for the hand of faith in us to direct it to lay fast hold upon the divinity of Christ, that we may attain to perfection of character.” – Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages, p. 123.
“At our baptism we pledged ourselves to break all connection with Satan and his agencies, and to put heart and mind and soul into the work of extending the kingdom of God. . . . The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are pledged to cooperate with sanctified human instrumentalities.” – Ellen G. White Comments, The SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 6, p. 1075.
“A profession of Christianity without corresponding faith and works will avail nothing. No man can serve two masters. The children of the wicked one are their own master’s servants; to whom they yield themselves servants to obey, his servants they are, and they cannot be the servants of God until they renounce the devil and all his works. It cannot be harmless for servants of the heavenly King to engage in the pleasures and amusements which Satan’s servants engage in, even though they often repeat that such amusements are harmless. God has revealed sacred and holy truths to separate His people from the ungodly and purify them unto Himself. Seventh-day Adventists should live out their faith.” – Ellen G. White, Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 404.
17 comment(s) for this post:
- Guy [Surname?]:
17 Nov 2017 Regarding question 3: It does not matter what Christ has done if we have failed to accept and receive His ultimate sacrifice. This is why both sides are critical. Christ could have and did give all, but if we do not accept what He has given them as it relates to our own individual life He did nothing. Not because He actually did nothing but because we have failed to receive what He did as a personal sacrifice for our own individual sin condition. It is amazing that we finite human beings would have the power to tie the hands of Jesus that created everything including you and I but that is exactly what we do when we refuse to accept His ultimate sacrifice for our sin condition.
- Jim bob:
17 Nov 2017 From above.. "However important it is that we always remember that our salvation rests only in that which Christ has done for us, what dangers arise if we overemphasize that wonderful truth to the exclusion of the other part of the salvation: that which Jesus does in us to transform us into His image?" What does "rests only" mean? Is the "other part of salvation" the only other part? Can we only overcome sin some of the time, and at best most of the time, but never all of the time?
- Jim bob:
17 Nov 2017 Some in the church will use Paul's words in chapter 7 to justify that one can not stop sinning. An SDA seminary professor told his audience that being unable to be sinless before the 2nd coming is the majority position of the SDA denomination. A former pastor at the SDA church I attend embraces that opinion. The current pastor has yet to give his response yet. I would be interested in a comprehensive/ mass survey to see what is the majority opinion.
- Benjamin Dwayne:
17 Nov 2017 Jim Bob, "Rest only" means that our salvation by no means can be accomplished by our means. We have to have confidence, not in ourselves or our works, but in Christ and His works. We are saved by His life, secured by His death and have hope through his resurrection. "Other part of salvation" only part? Yes! what other part can even compare to Christ transforming us into His image. Phil. 1:6, Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. This is our Hope, that He will never leave us nor forsake us! We can overcome sin ALL the time. Why? Because Christ did that's why. And if Christ is abiding in us and we in Him, Christ does not sin. We have to choose daily. 1 John 2:1, says, I write these things that ye sin not. Then he goes on to say that, " but IF we sin, we have an advocate." Not WHEN we sin. To say we can only prevent sin most of the time at best, is to say God is only faithful most of the time at best. God is always faithful! My thoughts, Jim.
17 Nov 2017 I don't like to be considered a slave. Romans 6:22. I would much rather be a son of our Heavenly Father, part of My people, a child of God, heir of God, and joint heir with Christ. 2 Corinthians 6:18. Jeremiah 30:22, Jeremiah 32:38, John 1:12. Romans 8:16-17. Now so I am not labeled playing word games, let me tell you what I do believe Paul meant by slave to righteousness. I do believe He ment to say committed to righteousness, or consecrated to righteousness. I love how Sister White put it: "When Christ dwells in the heart, the soul will be so filled with His love, with the joy of communion with Him, that it will cleave to Him; and in the contemplation of Him, self will be forgotten. Love to Christ will be the spring of action. Those who feel the constraining love of God, do not ask how little may be given to meet the requirements of God; they do not ask for the lowest standard, but aim at perfect conformity to the will of their Redeemer. With earnest desire they yield all and manifest an interest proportionate to the value of the object which they seek. A profession of Christ without this deep love is mere talk, dry formality, and heavy drudgery." SC 44.2
- Sieg Hoppe:
18 Nov 2017 Hi Jim. I can't speak to "the majority position of the SDA denomination" but I can say that, for myself, if it were possible for me to be absolutely without sin, and it's not (Romans 3:10; 1 John 1:8), I wouldn't need a Savior. I could then present myself faultless before God and wouldn't need Jesus to do it for me (Jude 24) by crediting His faithfulness to my "sinless" account. To the contrary, I need Jesus as my Savior, Substitute, Surety and Lord (2 Corinthians 5:21). See http://ssnet.org/blog/monday-the-righteousness-of-god/
- Robert Whiteman:
18 Nov 2017 Paul's description in Romans 7 can only lead some to this denial of anyone overcoming IF the whole chapter and the following chapter are left out of the consideration, IF the life and teachings of Jesus, and the"exceeding great and precious promises of God are held in unbelief. The Bible is clear about those who will stand in that day when the mighty men of the earth are seeking to hide from the Lamb of God while crying; "WHO is able to stand?!!" The answer to this question is there for all to learn from(Rev 7). There will be those who will gain that victory that overcomes the world through faith. Will we be among them? "It is better to trust in the Lord, than to trust in men" "It is better to trust in the Lord, than to trust in princes" Ps 118:8,9 The Word of God is true, no matter what any theologian might tell you.
- Don Litchfield:
18 Nov 2017 Yes, John, I believe that God's Love should be our focus. When Christ is in us by His Spirit, His Love will be our motivation. In this "Light" we cannot sin unless we allow our darkness (selfishness) to come back. If we watch and pray like Jesus said we can stay in the Love motivation and never sin. Our inherited and cultivated tendencies are no match for the Light of God's presence. In Him we are powerful to overcome selfishness and sin. Jesus showed us how it works even for genetic weakness which He had as much as we do. He also was involved in the Light of God's Love which we may have with our choice to allow God's Spirit in to motivate our thoughts and feelings.
- Pete Villarreal:
18 Nov 2017 I as a SDA since 1965 take the position that as long as we are this side of Jesus' second coming, I will always be subject to what the Apostle John wrote in 1 John 1:8-10 especially verses 8 and 10 and therefore the need for verse 9 until Jesus comes and gives me a GLORIFED AND SINLESS AND FLAWLESS BODY.
- William Earnhardt:
18 Nov 2017 Verse 9 tells us we are cleansed from all unrighteousness. We the entire book of 1 John to get the big picture. "And as we live in God, our love grows more perfect. So we will not be afraid on the day of judgment, but we can face him with confidence because we live like Jesus here in this world." 1 John 4:17 NLT
- Pete Villarreal:
18 Nov 2017 But verse 8 and 10 are very clear that we can never claim to be sinless here and therefore always in need of verse 9 for confessing our sins daily and however many times they come to our mind. Therefore 1 John 4:19 cannot be talking about us being perfectly and flawlessly sinless but just simply that we will suffer as Jesus suffered from his enemies. He suffered being sinless, we will suffer in witnessing about him as sinners in need of 1 John 1:9 always and until HE returns.
- William Earnhardt:
18 Nov 2017 Pete, that is not how I read it. In verse 8 John tells us we must realize we have a sin problem so in verse 9 we find the cure. That's how the whole book of 1 John makes sense to me.
- Don Litchfield:
18 Nov 2017 Sieg, If Jesus can't keep us from sinning then He is not a Savior.
- Sieg Hoppe:
18 Nov 2017 Don. I appreciate your reply. Jesus will cover our sins with His righteousness (the Gospel) if we surrender our will to Him and realize our sinfulness and need of a Savior. Until He comes, He will move us toward sanctification but we will not achieve it until then when we "shall be like Him" (1 John 3:2). That is why no one can name one person who lived without sin except Jesus, our Substitute. Yet, David, Abraham, Moses, Sampson, Job, et al. are all considered righteous in God's eyes. Not because they achieved sinlessness, but because Christ died for (paid for) their sins and credited His perfection to their Heavenly account. This is what we deny at our peril when we claim we can achieve sinlessness, by whatever means. As tragic, is the hoard of people who simple give up trying to trust their salvation to God, realizing their own imperfection and hearing from some Adventists that "you can be perfect if you only..." We hear from them occasionally on this blog, desperately seeking to gain what only Christ has accomplished on our behalf. If only they knew... they are just like us... in need of a Substitute because we just don't and can't "measure up."
- Pete Villarreal:
19 Nov 2017 Yes, we will not be afraid of THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT because of what JESUS has done, is doing, and will do for us and not because of anything WE WILL DO, are doing, and will do. That is why in the O.T. and in the Sanctuary services A SPOTLESS LAMB was sacrificed BY THE PRIESTS twice every single day for thousands of years. All this represented what JESUS would do and did and is doing for us. And so 1 John 1:9 will be there for us till HE COMES in the clouds of glory. Then there is another one from the Apostle John that is even clearer: 1 John 3:2, here John says that NOW the Father considers us SONS because of HIS SON, yet we are NOT YET like His Son until HE RETURNS.
- William Earnhardt:
19 Nov 2017 Pete, I imagine we will always be growing more like Christ throughout eternity. 1 John 3:2 is not telling me that I have to keep sinning until Jesus comes. Thank you for sharing the hope for all of us that Jesus is always ready to forgive. A broken and contrite heart the Lord will not despise, no matter how many times sin has broken that heart before. I wish we could all be more forgiving as Jesus is to us. But I still find no Bible doctrine that tells me I have to sin until Jesus comes.
- Pete Villarreal:
19 Nov 2017 Here again, Sin manifests itself in different ways: 1. sin as LIFESTYLE; this is sin before conversion to Jesus, like DRINKING, SMOKING, NASTY AND FOUL LANGUAGE etc. 2. sin as NATURE; this is sin in ALL HUMANS before conversion to Jesus and after, like issues with anger, fear, anxiety, etc. 3. sin as CHARACTER DEFECTS; this is sin after conversion to Jesus because of INHERITED AND CULTIVATED tendencies from past sinful lifestyles and also from inherited tendencies in our DNA makeups. The sins of "lifestyles," are easier to get rid of when we first come to Jesus. The sins of Nature or even the Character Defects ones are the ones that will take THE WORK OF A LIFETIME to get rid of in and while "Living and working for Jesus."